Aucbvax.6009 fa.space utcsrgv!utzoo!decvax!ucbvax!space Sun Jan 31 03:38:08 1982 SPACE Digest V2 #93 >From OTA@S1-A Sun Jan 31 03:32:48 1982 SPACE Digest Volume 2 : Issue 93 Today's Topics: ARPANET Withholding Tax? Technologists vs Humanists Technologists and Humanists Technologists "vs." Humanists Re: Government Funding of Space Re: Technologists and Humanists ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 January 1982 16:18 est From: Tavares.Multics at MIT-Multics Subject: ARPANET Withholding Tax? To: Space-Enthusiasts at MIT-MC In-Reply-To: Message of 30 January 1982 06:02 est from Ted Anderson The first part of almost every message I have gotten over the past three or so days has been missing (where "message" means each individual note in each digest shipment). Whas hoppnin. ------------------------------ Date: 30 Jan 1982 2322-PST From: Jim McGrath Subject: Technologists vs Humanists To: space at MIT-MC First, apoligies to everyone on SPACE for discussing what is probably not an appropiate topic for this list. But since the subject came up... Saying technology is more important than the humanities is stupid, since technology, the APPLICATION of scientific knowledge, has to be directed by social goals determined by the study of the humanities (and social "sciences"). However, saying humanities is more important than technology is equally stupid, since man is, above all else, a TECHNOLOGICAL animal. Our use of tools, more than anything else, has contributed to our current state of civilization. Trying to understand Man without his tools (please, no comments on sexist language!) is a fruitless endevour that will ultimately lead to failure. One problem we face is that there are significant numbers of people who believe that technology, in and of itself, can solve all problems. This is wrong, since those very problems CANNOT be defined or specified by a strict examination of technological alternatives (although some constraints as to what is physically possible can be supplied by technology) - one MUST appeal to the knowledge lodged in the study of Man, the humanities. Another problem we face is the presence of a large number of people who believe that Man's tools and his tool making capacity should be ignored when examining the proper role of our race in the universal scheme of things. One cannot make ANY decisions about what Man should do or should become without examining how Man interacts with the physical Universe - and this is the domain of Science and Technology. Frankly, I have no doubts that there are far more people causing the second problem than the first. At least most technologists believe that they SHOULD be aware of the Humanities, while many poeple in the Humanities feel no obligation to understand the first principles of Science and Technology. So while we need more people knowledgable in both areas, the lack of technological understanding among the people studying the Humanities seems to be the most severe problem we are currently facing. Jim ------------------------------ Date: 31 January 1982 03:39-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: Technologists and Humanists To: TAW at S1-A cc: SPACE at MIT-MC If you burned all the art, people would be miserable but alive. If you burned all the technology, about 75% of the population would starve. Which should we do? (Maybe neither?) ------------------------------ Date: 31 January 1982 03:45-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: Technologists "vs." Humanists To: LRC.SLOCUM at UTEXAS-20 cc: space at MIT-AI Which Nobel Peace Prize winners have really advanced the cause of Peace? As opposed to those who have managed to impress the right people? Indeed: how DOES one advance the cause of peace? Did Pacifist in WWII advance the cause of peace? Or did Joe and Willy (and General Patton)? Is Jane Fonda, or a US Army paratrooper lieutenant, more likely to advance the cause of peace today? Was Appius Claudius the Blind right when he said "If thou wouldst have peace, be thou then prepared for war," or is paying Danegeld a better approach (oops: don't needlessly irritate the totalitarians, they MEAN it...) ------------------------------ Date: 31 January 1982 03:52-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: Re: Government Funding of Space To: ucbvax!decvax!watmath!jcwinterton at UCB-C70 cc: SPACE at MIT-MC If a private company SUCCESSFULLY manages to make profits in space, it will instantly be broken up as a monopoly... ------------------------------ Date: 31 January 1982 03:56-EST From: Jerry E. Pournelle Subject: Re: Technologists and Humanists To: ucbvax!ihnss!mhtsa!harpo!chico!duke!decvax!watmath!jcwinterton at UCB-C70 cc: SPACE at MIT-MC Sir: you ought to come to some of my parties at AAAS meetings and MEET some REAL techologists; a more diversified group I don't know. Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that Kantrowitz, Dyson, Minsky, Forward, Anderson, Ruffini, Benford (Benford**2, actually), Bussard, etc. have no "humanistic" interests? ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest ******************* ----------------------------------------------------------------- gopher://quux.org/ conversion by John Goerzen of http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News/ This Usenet Oldnews Archive article may be copied and distributed freely, provided: 1. There is no money collected for the text(s) of the articles. 2. The following notice remains appended to each copy: The Usenet Oldnews Archive: Compilation Copyright (C) 1981, 1996 Bruce Jones, Henry Spencer, David Wiseman.