Aucbvax.1961 fa.sf-lovers utzoo!duke!decvax!ucbvax!MDP@MIT-AI Sat Jun 27 08:43:45 1981 SF-LOVERS Digest V3 #159 SF-LOVERS AM Digest Friday, 26 Jun 1981 Volume 3 : Issue 159 Today's Topics: SF Books - Robot animals & Vacuum animals & "Quest for Saint Aquin" & Palely Loitering, SF Topics - "That does not compute" & Many-chefs story formula & Tom Swifties, SF Movies - Harryhausen & "History of the World--Part I" & "Raiders" flaws & Lucas' non-photographic movies, Spoiler - "Raiders" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Jun 1981 2147-EDT From: DAA at MIT-DMS (David A. Adler) Subject: Robot animals Recently I read 'Mockingbird' by Walter Tevis that mostly took place in New York. The Bronx Zoo was replaced with animals that were robots, as many of the people in New York that were around were also robots. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 1981 (Thursday) 2300-EDT From: SHRAGE at WHARTON-10 (Jeffrey Shrager) Subject: Vacuum animals To: josh at RUTGERS I don't know whether you would consider this to be an animal or not but in "Creatures of Light and Darkness" (Zelazny) there is this "horse-like" thing that they call the "abyss". It is some sort of rip in space that is somehow related to the other characters (related as in blood, not just friends). Zelazny never really makes it clear exactly what it is. Its name escapes me. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jun 1981 10:53:56-EDT From: cjh at CCA-UNIX (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: several short topics: Cc: Mike at MC, Woods at parc-maxc "The QUEST for Saint Aquin" is a 50's (? \maybe/ early 60's) story by Anthony Boucher; it was mentioned by several people when the subject of robot \\animals// was brought up by hjjh. As a sometime-assistant on the Cyber-SF project I should note that of all the suggestions so far, only the Anderson fits the criteria of "natural" cybernetic devices---this seems to be an extremely small category. "Good News from the Vatican" is by Silverberg, from the early-mid 70's. With the aid of Don Woods' suggestion I can identify a possible candidate for Mike's story as "Palely Loitering" by Chris Priest. This was a Hugo nominee two years ago; it concerns a park connected to the rest of the city by three bridges over a "time river"---one bridge takes you a day back, one is just a bridge, and one takes you a day forward. Obviously, you get a slow and awkward time machine out of this; you also have unreliable sight across the "river". I didn't like it, but I don't think much of anything by Priest. I'm quite sure that "Does Not Compute" isn't said in FORBIDDEN PLANET. LOST IN SPACE is a possibility, but I would swear it's from STAR TREK if I could remember/hear it being said by a female voice---which I can't. Leaving out comic book and other imitations, I know of one previous parody of the ape scene from 2001; the beginning of GROOVE TUBE, where they have a TV set instead of a monolith. I don't recall a light-saberish duel in GATHER, DARKNESS, but last year during my books-into-films survey someone mentioned Gordon Dickson's WOLFLING, which has a similar idea except there are two rods per fighter with the force strongest at the intersection of the "blades". ------------------------------ Date: 25 June 1981 21:09-EDT (Thursday) From: David Goldfarb To: ihnss!karn at Berkeley Subject: "That does not compute" It was definitely the robot on Lost In Space; I spent many, many hours of my otherwise wasted youth watching that show. - David ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 1981 2110-PDT (Thursday) From: Lauren at UCLA-SECURITY (Lauren Weinstein) Subject: "That does not compute" How could anyone even have a QUESTION about this one? This immortal line is certainly to be credited to the "Lost In Space" robot, who used it VERY frequently. Robbie was too classy to make remarks like that! --Lauren-- ------------------------------ Date: 26 June 1981 0019-EDT (Friday) From: Lee.Moore at CMU-10A Subject: "That does not compute" Responses to the origin of that phrase were being collected by Phil Agre @ MIT. I believe that he is still absent from the country. Lee ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 1981 (Monday) 1719-EDT From: SHRAGE at WHARTON-10 (Jeffrey Shrager) Subject: Modified FiCom protocol A modification to the Fiction Communication system has been suggested that corrects a problem in my original design: The initial editor does not write the initial storyline. Rather, he controls the voting for the initial section and then publishes the first winner as the opening storyline. The winner of each successive vote becomes the new editor and may not contribute to the next set of optional lines. Thus, if someone is very good they do not get to just write the whole thing. Also, the editorial workload is well distributed and there is some "uniform discontinuity" in the editorial style. This is a better idea than editorial tenure. If you would like to either write for this project or take a hand in the voting procedure please send me mail. If I get enough responses (say about 40) we'll go for it on a trial basis. DO NOT SEND ME MAIL IF YOU ARE SIMPLY INTERESTED IN READING THE RESULTS -- they will be sent to SFL for everyone's interest. Another suggestion was that perhaps instead of writing out the whole gory thing in vivid detail, we simply collect and vote on one or two paragraph plot snapshots. This will ease every body's life but then someone has to sit down ex post facto and write the whole thing out. (We could send it off to Alan Dean Foster!) If you send me mail include your prefence as to doing the whole text or just the plot lines. Anyone who has already sent me mail needn't do so again. I have already taken down your addresses. -- Jeff ------------------------------ Date: 15 June 1981 11:55-EDT From: James M. Turner Subject: Delphing for literary profit Shade and Sweet water, Some thought on a Delphi short-story. First, imagine the following scenarios: 1) Person A writes a passionate love scene. Person B then writes the next chapter having one lover kill the other. Person A goes on vacation and misses the next chapter or 10. When he gets back, he sees what happened to the characters he introduced and goes into flames mode. He (or she) refuses to allow his/her chapter to be part of the story...trash 50 pages. 2) 400 people write one chapter...do you wanna read 4000 pages? 3) Miracle of miracles, it's published...who gets the check? 4) Of course, if it is published, it becomes commercial use of the net and is verboten. Other than those problems, I think it sounds kinda fun. It should probably NOT be associated with SFL. James P.S. Also, if you are one of the 'jurors', what happens if you are away and can't answer the ballot. Perhaps a list-wide ballot with a limited response time would be more reasonable. ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 1981 1023-EDT From: DYER-BENNET Subject: Response to 15-Jun SFL Since I'm new to this, I just went back and read the 15-Jun SFL (having finished with the 22-Jun edition) and found more to remark on... Steve Lionel refers to "a Tom Swift." Actually, they're called "Tom Swifties." My favorite example is "'Gee I wish I had a BB gun,' said Tom lackadaisically." Now, are any of you familiar with the "Tom Swift Verbal pun?" These are like Tom Swifties, except that the pun is made with the verb rather than the adverb. The standard basic example is "'Two plus two is four,' Tom added." It's somewhat harder but more interesting to come up with these. The worst one I've heard was "'Let's get out of this Egyptian port,' the Captain said." ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jun 1981 16:34:21-EDT From: cjh at CCA-UNIX (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: Harryhausen I can see why he's worried; it's not overexposure but the fact that his work is so bad compared to most of the other sfx stuff done today. He seems stuck with stop-motion when others use it as one part of a complex blend. A friend in theater told me yesterday that H actually \likes/ and tries to imitate the jerky 1940's work of his youth---maybe that's why he now seems so far behind the times or over the hill. (It was the general conclusion of the solstice party that his best was JASON AND THE ARGONAUTS or possibly THE GOLDEN VOYAGE OF SINBAD (better plot, sfx not as spectacular).) ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 1981 1902-PDT From: Jwagner at OFFICE Subject: HotW - Part I -- More Apes I doubt Mel Brooks will be sued for plagiarism for his opening scene in "History of the World -- Part I", but another popular comedy began with a parody of the Ape scene in "2001." Does anybody remember a movie called "The Groove Tube"? It was produced by Ken Shapiro, whose Hollywood career was indeed meteoric -- a real burnout. At the start of this movie, a group of missing-link types in some rocky Pleistocene outpost discover not a monolith, but a television set. One of the apes accidentally turns the set on, and the next thing you know they're all dancing to some heavy rock 'n' roll beat. Cute, huh? The most notable thing about "The Groove Tube" is that it's Chevy Chase's debut on the big screen. In one vignette, a parody of Geritol commercials, Chase is praising the aphrodisiac qualities of a product called "Geritan" which has worked wonders on his wife; and in another, Chevy is singing "I'm looking over a four-leaf clover" while Shapiro bongos on his head. Jim Wagner/jwagner@office [mdp - Thanks also to Margolin.PDO at MIT-Multics, MD at MIT-XX (Mike Dornbrook), SHRAGE at WHARTON-10 (Jeffrey Shrager), Pattin.PDO at MIT-Multics (Jay Pattin), and cjh at CCA-UNIX (Chip Hitchcock) for pointing out the 2001 parody in "The Groove Tube".] ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 1981 11:01:37-EDT From: cjh at CCA-UNIX (Chip Hitchcock) Subject: stunt doubles I'm not sure which scene ?? was speaking of in the case of Harrison Ford being inside and outside the truck in RotLA, since I haven't seen the movie, but I've seen a "scenes from shooting RotLA" film (it was shown at Disclave) and I wouldn't swear that Ford ever used a double. I particularly remember some shots of the setup for the scene in which he's dragged behind a jeep; it's my impression that "double" in "stunt double" is a relative term (the stuntman having only a general resemblance to the person he's replacing) but I could swear it was Ford they were padding so he could be dragged without too much damage. ------------------------------ Date: 26 June 1981 10:14-EDT From: Dennis L. Doughty Subject: Raiders of the Lost Ark Rebuttal Regarding "Raiders of the Lost Ark" (I hate these stoopid abbrevs), I checked out FIRST'S complaint when I went to see it again. (This comment regarded the mysterious disappearence and then reappearence of Jones' wound. Well, it was there the whole time. You see, Jones was wearing a jacket through which (when the hole was open -- the bullet tore the jacket) you could see blood. When he was sliding along behind the truck, the slit in the jacket folded over itself (check it yourself) so the wound could not be seen directly. However, some blood did impart itself to the outer left sleeve of the jacket, and, in fact, one could barely see a hint of red on the stunt man's left shoulder. Regarding the cobra, I didn't notice the glass partition, but I did notice a lapse in continuity. From one angle, Jones is seen staring down the snake, and starting to back up; then we cut to a different angle (he still must be two feet or less from the cobra at this point) and he's looking away as if he's out of danger. I never did really understand how he got away -- although we're supposed to believe that he simply backed up until he was out of danger. All in all, I enjoyed the movie. It was a real treat to see a giant boulder (previously only seen on WB cartoons on Saturday mornings) racing after our hero. What a disappointment it was the second time when I arrived too late to see this! ***1/2 stars (Four stars for enjoyment and general style minus 1/2 a star for the snakes [Why did it have to be snakes?]) --Dennis ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 1981 09:41:57-PDT From: CSVAX.presotto at Berkeley Subject: Lucas' non-photographic movies In reply to REDFORD's remark in v3i156, we had a member of Lucas' Marin Lab come to Berkeley to give a talk some months back (though I forget his name). Although he spent a lot of time name dropping or showing "cute computer generated" films he also dropped in a few interesting remarks. It turns out that the number of chemical and physical processes involved in the simplest matting shots are pretty expensive. The switch to all electronic filming would cut down the expense enormously (once they manage to recoupe research expenses) by making matting, landscape generation, editting, color control, etc. a lot easier. It isn't just the fantastic effects that they're shooting for. As a matter of fact that's a minor side effect, though it is true that making content-free garbage will also become cheaper and easier. However, given that soon everyone will be able to make spectacular effects cheaply, maybe we'll start seeing some good plots again. dave presotto ------------------------------ MDP@MIT-AI 6/26/81 00:00:00 Re: SPOILER WARNING! SPOILER WARNING! The following message is the last in the digest. It gives away part of the ending to "Raiders of the Lost Ark". Readers who have not seen this movie may wish not to read any further. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jun 1981 1357-EDT From: DYER-BENNET Subject: SFL responses Some comments on Lucasfilms and Raiders of the Lost Ark: I felt that RotLA was an insult to my intelligence. The major technique for carrying the plot forward seemed to be the "Hackwriter's Gambit": Put the hero in an impossible situation, then cut to the beginning of the next action sequence without bothering to indicate how he escaped. Did anyone besides me interpret the ending of the sequence in which the Ark is opened to be God "taking back" the Ten Commandments? This could have interesting consequences, depending on interpretation. I also read the Newsweek article, including Lucas' discussion of all-electronic production. From the sales of TV's and associated program sources (tape, disk), I appear to be in a small minority... but unless his "all-electronic" production gives about an order of magnitude better linear resolution than current broadcast television, I'm not particularly interested in seeing the results. I suppose he could be thinking of some form of high-resolution recording for the production work only, with theatrical prints released on traditional film. That should be perfectly possible. ------------------------------ End of SF-LOVERS Digest *********************** ----------------------------------------------------------------- gopher://quux.org/ conversion by John Goerzen of http://communication.ucsd.edu/A-News/ This Usenet Oldnews Archive article may be copied and distributed freely, provided: 1. There is no money collected for the text(s) of the articles. 2. The following notice remains appended to each copy: The Usenet Oldnews Archive: Compilation Copyright (C) 1981, 1996 Bruce Jones, Henry Spencer, David Wiseman.